This is the greatest fear. Take the example of simple AA batteries. As time and technology progressed, we didn't get safer, easily reusable and rechargable batteries and infra to charge them and safely dispose when they eventually met its end life.
Instead we (India) got dirt cheap throwaway batteries everywhere that came bundled with every item or toy we buy...
I think economics and incentives are in such a way that global ICE conversion to EV will happen a lot faster than technologies that can cheaply recycle them or dispose them is available..We worry about pollution of atmosphere, and I am wondering what similar thing could happen when the improperly disposed EV batteries starts piling up. At least for atmosphere, plants and trees could potentially cleanup CO2..What will clean up those dead batteries and the potentially toxics chemicals that seep out of them, if the economics and incentives are not aligned to make that happen? I don't think regulations are powerful enough to do that (at least until it is too late)...then what else?
Will the developed countries just ship their crap to places like my country and call it a day? I mean, if we buy some food from some hotel, it already come in some recycled container from china or something..and unless I am mistaken our toys are mostly made of plastic waste from china..
Would something similar happen with EV waste as well?
I recently read an article about a company that develops technology for re-using worn-out EV batteries for grid storage. After all, your EV battery with 70% capacity would be useful for many years somewhere in the desert with thousands of other similar batteries, as large-scale grid storage. The technology was great, the business model was sound, grid operators were very interested, everything was fine, except… the supply of those EV batteries.
Turns out those EV batteries do not degrade as quickly as we were repeatedly told (by black PR, my guess) and there simply aren't enough to go around :-)
I had a friend working on tech to recycle ev car batteries for household storage. One of the issues has been that the durability of these batteries is much better than people thought
This is because of expiring patents which create an artificial inflation of businesses' durable market value for the incumbent allowing them to monopolize the market via supply scarcity. Naturally there would have been more recycling the entire time if it were not restricted by patents.
Which patents were the biggest hold backs in the recycling industry? I am curious how the patent landscape looks today compared to a decade ago. Seems like it would be exploding in more recent history.
This type of content would never cross my path normally , way outside my skillset. But it is stil interesting and exactly why I keep coming back to HN.
21 comments:
This is the greatest fear. Take the example of simple AA batteries. As time and technology progressed, we didn't get safer, easily reusable and rechargable batteries and infra to charge them and safely dispose when they eventually met its end life.
Instead we (India) got dirt cheap throwaway batteries everywhere that came bundled with every item or toy we buy...
I think economics and incentives are in such a way that global ICE conversion to EV will happen a lot faster than technologies that can cheaply recycle them or dispose them is available..We worry about pollution of atmosphere, and I am wondering what similar thing could happen when the improperly disposed EV batteries starts piling up. At least for atmosphere, plants and trees could potentially cleanup CO2..What will clean up those dead batteries and the potentially toxics chemicals that seep out of them, if the economics and incentives are not aligned to make that happen? I don't think regulations are powerful enough to do that (at least until it is too late)...then what else?
Will the developed countries just ship their crap to places like my country and call it a day? I mean, if we buy some food from some hotel, it already come in some recycled container from china or something..and unless I am mistaken our toys are mostly made of plastic waste from china..
Would something similar happen with EV waste as well?
EV batteries last much longer than we were told:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/08/01/electric...
and, after they are no longer useful in EVs, they are still useful for at least another decade as grid storage.
There was (and still is) a lot of black PR around this, sponsored by the fossil fuel industry.
Climate change due to CO2 is going to be far more catastrophic.
So India should just keep acting as the waste dump for Europe, US and China because the alternative would be even worse?
No, India should ban nonrechargeable batteries - import and sale. Why is it other countries' fault what India chooses to bring into and sell in India?
Most CO2 in the air stays there for geological time frames. Local pollution from badly managed landfills is unlikely to collapse global ecosystems.
CO2 is much more serious
I recently read an article about a company that develops technology for re-using worn-out EV batteries for grid storage. After all, your EV battery with 70% capacity would be useful for many years somewhere in the desert with thousands of other similar batteries, as large-scale grid storage. The technology was great, the business model was sound, grid operators were very interested, everything was fine, except… the supply of those EV batteries.
Turns out those EV batteries do not degrade as quickly as we were repeatedly told (by black PR, my guess) and there simply aren't enough to go around :-)
EDIT: I can't find the original article, but I found this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/08/01/electric...
I had a friend working on tech to recycle ev car batteries for household storage. One of the issues has been that the durability of these batteries is much better than people thought
This is because of expiring patents which create an artificial inflation of businesses' durable market value for the incumbent allowing them to monopolize the market via supply scarcity. Naturally there would have been more recycling the entire time if it were not restricted by patents.
Which patents were the biggest hold backs in the recycling industry? I am curious how the patent landscape looks today compared to a decade ago. Seems like it would be exploding in more recent history.
Or, less conspiratorially, it's because the volume of batteries that need recycling has been steadily growing.
Or because the possibility of profits incentivized invention.
All three of these theories can be true
In which case the market is working as intended.
If all three are true then the market is 2/3 working as intended and 1/3 held back by patents that aren't being licensed out enough.
Is someone saying otherwise here?
YahooTube’s comment is heavily implying that the market systems in-place stifled invention via patent restrictions.
Yes, but isn’t that working as intended?
Both can be true.
Sorry what?
This type of content would never cross my path normally , way outside my skillset. But it is stil interesting and exactly why I keep coming back to HN.