Since i like tech, once i was also interested in a smart doorbell or lock. My wife very much disliked the idea, because she thought it could prevent us to even enter our own house when the tech fails.
Then one day i watched my neighbour trying to get into his own house, because his smart lock and doorbell system failed horribly. This took several hours. It started raining. I learned a lot of new swear words from my neighbours wife which were directed to her husband.
Mine too. Not only that, the breaker for the transformer is switched off because the postman used to come right as my then-2-year-old was going for his nap. He's nearly 6 now and has not had an afternoon nap for a long time, and at some point I'll flip the breaker back on when I'm getting my jacket out of the hall cupboard.
But I didn't do that yesterday, I don't think I'll do it today, and it's not looking good for tomorrow either.
This is a security concern as well. I'd argue even worse than the internet connected ones. Anyone at your front door (or where the button is) can easily know if you're at home, and take advantage if you're not. With the internet connected ones, you can always pretend.
From my experience with package delivery I can tell you this is not how it works. Press the button, door doesn't open that instance, ergo no one is home.
My home office is in the other end of the house, it takes ~20-30 seconds for me to get to the door. That is more time than UPS grants you.
I don’t think anyone is fooled into thinking people are home when the home owner “answers the door” via their internet connected doorbell.
If anything, I’d say that’s a bigger give away than someone not answering a traditional door bell given people used to not hear them even when home, all the time (particularly in bigger houses).
I would have thought this but was amazed at the number of times people would think I was home while talking to them via my doorbell. I have neighbor that told people I was rude to not come to the door and didn’t know I was talking to her from work.
How long ago was that? Was this when smart doorbells were brand new tech?
I could understand peoples misconception back when such door bells weren’t known about so the default assumption people might have is that it was an intercom.
The neighbor was 2022 or so but even more recent people have seemed a bit confused. I think having a car in the driveway makes people think we are home.
If you want to do some fun hacking project, Temu and similar websites are a trove of insecure cheap IoT devices made with almost 0 security consideration. Security camera, car chargers, sport tracking devices, etc.
If you are a bad actor, that is also probably a very easy way to find new ways to enroll devices in your botnet.
Can you actually access any of the doorbells on the internet with this? It reads to me like you need physical access to extract the signing keys etc over the debug port before you can actually impersonate the device
Awesome, as it doesn't actually work from the street door right now, and I can't get the condo management company to fix it. Guess I just need to post a QR code outside?
Anyone is probably a hyperbole here, regardless its accessible via internet, it is always in the category of relatively secure. Applies to pretty much every device connected to internet. Absolute security is a myth, it does not exists.
One can argue that a particular manufacturer is relatively more secure than other, however as long as the software is changing/evolving, eventually it will opens up the possibility/window to hack it
While true in general, this devices approach to security is an open doorway with a curtain in it to prevent access with they key hanging next to it in case there accidentally is a door. The security footprint is so low it should be called out as non existent.
You could take a picture from the real footage, remove the people from it and insert yourself into the front yard. Then when they open the door act confused that you cant see them.
edit: my doorbell resets if you hold it down for 10 seconds then it takes wifi credentials with a QR code and thinks you are it's new owner.
I have a Reolink but haven't got to Home Assistant yet. I'm happy switching to that, but for less technical (though still digital savvy) spouses - how would you say the switch would be for them?
You might if it were drastically more convenient. I seem to have somehow acquired nearly 1 imperial pound of documentation for every year I've been alive. That's just estimating based upon the weight of my panda file box next to my desk.
There's a lot in there, rental contracts, policy documents, w2 forms, that I might actually benefit from having scanned and digitally available on my computer. I feel that being able to search through these documents would have saved me some amount of trouble over the years.
Hell, if it were easy enough, I might actually scan all those receipts I bring home and then throw away.
I'd like my doorbell camera to have a cat detector and a meow detector so when my cats meow at the door, it rings the doorbell. My cats have gps collars and distinctive fur and meows, so it could double check so other cats can't spam me. That way each cat could have its own distinctive ring (like their distinctive meow, amplified).
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That would be impressive as my doorbell is hardwired from a button to a transformer and bell in a closet.
Mine is not only hardwired, but I mounted it kinda wrong and you need to press the dead center for it to ring :)
Since i like tech, once i was also interested in a smart doorbell or lock. My wife very much disliked the idea, because she thought it could prevent us to even enter our own house when the tech fails.
Then one day i watched my neighbour trying to get into his own house, because his smart lock and doorbell system failed horribly. This took several hours. It started raining. I learned a lot of new swear words from my neighbours wife which were directed to her husband.
Once again, my wife was totally right :)
It's the only way doorbells (and almost all other appliances) should be.
Your doorbell has an excellent threat model
Mine too. Not only that, the breaker for the transformer is switched off because the postman used to come right as my then-2-year-old was going for his nap. He's nearly 6 now and has not had an afternoon nap for a long time, and at some point I'll flip the breaker back on when I'm getting my jacket out of the hall cupboard.
But I didn't do that yesterday, I don't think I'll do it today, and it's not looking good for tomorrow either.
I could train a crow to fly over and peck it.
Or just order some pizza to his address.
TaskCrow.com
Don’t use those expensive escrow services, much cheaper to keep your own crows!
Airtasker. Boom.
Electromagnetic triggers. Find the right frequency and resonate it.
This is a security concern as well. I'd argue even worse than the internet connected ones. Anyone at your front door (or where the button is) can easily know if you're at home, and take advantage if you're not. With the internet connected ones, you can always pretend.
Anyone physically near your house can just see you leaving the house and know you are not at home, besides all the other signs.
There is no control against this, and it shouldn't be something you rely on to prevent break-ins or burglaries (if you were thinking of such threats).
From my experience with package delivery I can tell you this is not how it works. Press the button, door doesn't open that instance, ergo no one is home.
My home office is in the other end of the house, it takes ~20-30 seconds for me to get to the door. That is more time than UPS grants you.
I don’t think anyone is fooled into thinking people are home when the home owner “answers the door” via their internet connected doorbell.
If anything, I’d say that’s a bigger give away than someone not answering a traditional door bell given people used to not hear them even when home, all the time (particularly in bigger houses).
I would have thought this but was amazed at the number of times people would think I was home while talking to them via my doorbell. I have neighbor that told people I was rude to not come to the door and didn’t know I was talking to her from work.
How long ago was that? Was this when smart doorbells were brand new tech?
I could understand peoples misconception back when such door bells weren’t known about so the default assumption people might have is that it was an intercom.
The neighbor was 2022 or so but even more recent people have seemed a bit confused. I think having a car in the driveway makes people think we are home.
There are way more indicators than just a doorbell. Closed curtains, car not in driveway, lights out ...
Well my curtains and light open and close on a schedule so they won’t tell them much. Also who can afford to drive to work anymore?
If you want to do some fun hacking project, Temu and similar websites are a trove of insecure cheap IoT devices made with almost 0 security consideration. Security camera, car chargers, sport tracking devices, etc.
If you are a bad actor, that is also probably a very easy way to find new ways to enroll devices in your botnet.
Can you actually access any of the doorbells on the internet with this? It reads to me like you need physical access to extract the signing keys etc over the debug port before you can actually impersonate the device
I think the distinction is: physical access helps bootstrap the research, but the resulting key/signing logic is not device-specific
Is this not more targeted at “badly developed IOT” generally as opposed to “your doorbell”? Bad title.
Awesome, as it doesn't actually work from the street door right now, and I can't get the condo management company to fix it. Guess I just need to post a QR code outside?
Can ring this Temu doorbell.
Anyone is probably a hyperbole here, regardless its accessible via internet, it is always in the category of relatively secure. Applies to pretty much every device connected to internet. Absolute security is a myth, it does not exists.
One can argue that a particular manufacturer is relatively more secure than other, however as long as the software is changing/evolving, eventually it will opens up the possibility/window to hack it
While true in general, this devices approach to security is an open doorway with a curtain in it to prevent access with they key hanging next to it in case there accidentally is a door. The security footprint is so low it should be called out as non existent.
You could take a picture from the real footage, remove the people from it and insert yourself into the front yard. Then when they open the door act confused that you cant see them.
edit: my doorbell resets if you hold it down for 10 seconds then it takes wifi credentials with a QR code and thinks you are it's new owner.
I'd be shocked if the Ring doorbells were materially more secure.
I sit firmly in the "only smart device is my printer and I keep a loaded gun next to it in case it makes a weird noise" camp.
You should probably get a cheap IoT camera to keep an eye on that printer!
not "get", build it with an esp32 & Tasmota (or whatever).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005010326236256.html
And then bug a camera to monitor the first camera
Exactly. All my IoT stuff is on it's own wifi network and VLAN because I don't trust the initial or long term security of some of these manufacturers.
I have a poe reolink camera doorbell that I am yet to install...
I've got the Reolink PoE doorbell and it works great!
Me too.
You can put it on a separate VLAN with no internet access and watch it via your own app eg Home Assistant, Frigate, Zoneminder or whatever.
I have a Reolink but haven't got to Home Assistant yet. I'm happy switching to that, but for less technical (though still digital savvy) spouses - how would you say the switch would be for them?
Your printer doesn't make weird noises?
Nope, just the usual things a printer mumbles to itself when it thinks it’s alone.
All bets are off if you use unapproved third-party toner cartridges...
Nothing unexpected or I am not used to
have you tried putting a loaded wep next to it?
The Battlestar Galactica rule. I find comfort in it as well.
I would love if my printer was more dumb. It's cheaper to buy an AIO than a separate document (with duplex) and flatbed scanner.
Nowadays smartphones do credible document scanning for most consumer use cases. iPhones had this built in before COVID at the latest.
But the printer comment was actually a reference to a meme about how different groups of people relate to technology.
Nobody on the Internet can ring my doorbell because it's a dumb button that connects to a dumb, literal bell.
> Nowadays smartphones do credible document scanning for most consumer use cases. iPhones had this built in before COVID at the latest.
Now do 40 pages, front-and-back, with your smartphone.
That's not "most consumer use cases".
I have not once in my entire life had to scan 40 pages at once. I bet I've never done more than 15 at once.
For the once in a blue moon that I need to scan 40 double-sided pages I'd just go to my local print shop.
Okay I exaggerated, but 15 would be bad enough. I use the sheet-feed multiple times a year:
- Banking/Investment documents (I actually sent a fax to a bank last year because $REASONS)
- Foster-care related stuff
- Sending tax documents to my accountant
I got flashbacks from preparing immigration papers…
You might if it were drastically more convenient. I seem to have somehow acquired nearly 1 imperial pound of documentation for every year I've been alive. That's just estimating based upon the weight of my panda file box next to my desk.
There's a lot in there, rental contracts, policy documents, w2 forms, that I might actually benefit from having scanned and digitally available on my computer. I feel that being able to search through these documents would have saved me some amount of trouble over the years.
Hell, if it were easy enough, I might actually scan all those receipts I bring home and then throw away.
I mean yes and no. If I knew your address, I could 100% ring your doorbell from the Internet.
CTRL+T, doordash.com, McDonalds, "ring doorbell please", pay, done.
I know this isn't what you mean, but, humans are buttons (or button pressers?)
To handle older cars that can't close the door by itself, Waymo (used to?) pay nearby DoorDash drivers to close it.
Picturing the scene from Where The Buffalo Roam.
... but I think that was a fax machine.
I wonder how I would feel about that, if I was alone at home, and lonely.
Would it cheer me that people were reaching out and ringing my doorbell?
Or would it make me sad because I would be reminded that there was not a friend ringing at the door?
Or an even worse idea: What if ads started ringing your doorbell suddenly?
noticed how spam has that utility for many elderly (which further incentivizes the abuse)
I'd like my doorbell camera to have a cat detector and a meow detector so when my cats meow at the door, it rings the doorbell. My cats have gps collars and distinctive fur and meows, so it could double check so other cats can't spam me. That way each cat could have its own distinctive ring (like their distinctive meow, amplified).
Please, It's much safer to keep them indoors where they can't kill songbirds, crap on the neighbours kids lawn or get run over.
The most depressing part is that none of this sounds exotic