If you ever wondered how to write a programming language, this is probably the best resource to get started (and then of course Crafting Interpreters).
I actually perfected the Norvig Lisp at one time. It has compiler to python and just everything. Those very few here that can actually read code, understand why this project soon exploded into biggest piece of odorous excrement.
One of those exercises that are now just boring, because AI does it better.
My Lisp from 1975 was actually used in real world and highly lucrative. Gemini could read the source code, but it told that my code was piece of shit and cannot be implemented in 64-bit world without drastic changes, so it made an example. But that version was just too advanced and too complex as a study subject. There are already enuff good Lisps in the world, methinks.
There are two problems with Lisp parentheses in my opinion:
1) Humans are not that equipped to handle that level of nesting without some other aid, this is why Lisp code is usually indented.
2) Parentheses aren't just about grouping, and this is unintuitive. For example, x is not the same as (x). This is a bit like in set theory where x is not the same as {x}, but parentheses do not look like the kind of sign that would work like that.
I changed my opinion about parens when I stopped formatting like C, and used indent rather than parens to denote blocks. That is, a large amount of them at the end is totally fine.
There are edge cases where this fails, but `def parse(s): return json.loads('['+re.sub('([")])\s*(["(])','\g<1>,\g<2>',re.sub('[^()\s]+','"\g<0>"',s)).replace('(','[').replace(')',']')+']')` is a surprisingly robust lisp parser.
> I don’t think a good learning resource gets worse[...]
Probably not, but they become irrelevant. The other day I found an old programming book at my parents’ and while it was still a terrific resource, I couldn’t image anyone learning a language from a book nowadays.
AI is doing the same thing but 100 times effectively than anything else.
Blog tutorials, guides, programming books and youtube tutorials. They are completely irrelevant in a time where you have a personal tutor willing to explain every single detail of a subject.
That's like saying your grandfather is irrelevant now that he's spawned children and grandchildren. Good luck to those personal tutors without this source material.
28 comments:
If you ever wondered how to write a programming language, this is probably the best resource to get started (and then of course Crafting Interpreters).
See also part 2 https://norvig.com/lispy2.html
I actually perfected the Norvig Lisp at one time. It has compiler to python and just everything. Those very few here that can actually read code, understand why this project soon exploded into biggest piece of odorous excrement.
https://github.com/timonoko/nokolis.py
(how-to in-python (write (interpreter lisp)))
Yes, but to be fair, you only have a couple minutes to fight the HN title regex.
One of those exercises that are now just boring, because AI does it better.
My Lisp from 1975 was actually used in real world and highly lucrative. Gemini could read the source code, but it told that my code was piece of shit and cannot be implemented in 64-bit world without drastic changes, so it made an example. But that version was just too advanced and too complex as a study subject. There are already enuff good Lisps in the world, methinks.
Why did you replace your very similar comment with "--" just to post essentially the same thing again?
Writing a Lisp is one of my favorite projects. I try to do it every year or two, taking a different approach each time.
The one where you replaced parentheses with the crying laughing emojis was definitely the worst.
I can't recommend highly enough to implement a simple lisp (or a forth).
Illuminating experience and it will also help you see (among many other things) the parentheses in a different light.
First day of paradigms course in the 2000s and prof says "if your opinion of Scheme is too many parentheses, then you're an idiot."
Needless to say that was my opinion and every day I think, more and more, how right he was.
(later I did make some gui apps that included scripting and chose s-expr syntax because of how simple it is to implement it)
There are two problems with Lisp parentheses in my opinion:
1) Humans are not that equipped to handle that level of nesting without some other aid, this is why Lisp code is usually indented.
2) Parentheses aren't just about grouping, and this is unintuitive. For example, x is not the same as (x). This is a bit like in set theory where x is not the same as {x}, but parentheses do not look like the kind of sign that would work like that.
main problem isn't brackets themselves - it's that they're too on the right
had brackets been displayed as curly braces in C - everything would look much more manageable
so, instead of
you'd prefer is that right?(aar (bar1 1 2 3) (bar2 1 2 3) (bar3 (car1 2 3)(car2)(car3)))
Emacs vs vim, go!
I changed my opinion about parens when I stopped formatting like C, and used indent rather than parens to denote blocks. That is, a large amount of them at the end is totally fine.
or you could just use Raku and its “surprisingly good lisp impression”:
https://www.codesections.com/blog/raku-lisp-impression/
Appreciated the title xD
There are edge cases where this fails, but `def parse(s): return json.loads('['+re.sub('([")])\s*(["(])','\g<1>,\g<2>',re.sub('[^()\s]+','"\g<0>"',s)).replace('(','[').replace(')',']')+']')` is a surprisingly robust lisp parser.
(2010)?
Man these kind of resources have aged really bad in the age of AI.
Why would AI make these age worse than, say, libraries or languages becoming obsolete?
I don't think a good learning resource gets worse just because there's a newer alternative.
> I don’t think a good learning resource gets worse[...]
Probably not, but they become irrelevant. The other day I found an old programming book at my parents’ and while it was still a terrific resource, I couldn’t image anyone learning a language from a book nowadays.
AI is doing the same thing but 100 times effectively than anything else.
How do you mean “these kind”?
Blog tutorials, guides, programming books and youtube tutorials. They are completely irrelevant in a time where you have a personal tutor willing to explain every single detail of a subject.
That's like saying your grandfather is irrelevant now that he's spawned children and grandchildren. Good luck to those personal tutors without this source material.
How so?